The Future of Wellness
Welcome to The Future of Wellness - a podcast exploring energy healing, consciousness, trauma recovery, and somatic transformation with world-class experts.
Hosted by Christabel Armsden and Keith Parker, founders of Field Dynamics, this series bridges science and spirit through meaningful conversations at the edge of subtle energetics, neuroscience, embodiment, and human potential. From Ayurveda to energy medicine, meditation to somatic therapies, we uncover timeless tools and emerging insights to support healing, presence, and inner growth.
Whether you're a practitioner, seeker, or simply curious about how wellness is evolving, The Future of Wellness invites you into a deeper dialogue - one that reconnects you to the field of who you truly are.
The Future of Wellness
Heart-Brain Coherence, Emotional Intelligence & The Vibrational Spectrum of Love with Dr. Rollin McCraty
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The Science of Heart Coherence with Dr. Rollin McCraty
What if the heart held the key to emotional intelligence, intuition, and healing? In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Rollin McCraty, Director of Research at HeartMath® Institute, to explore the science behind heart-brain coherence and the vibrational spectrum of love.
We trace Dr. McCraty’s inspiring journey from communications engineer to consciousness pioneer, and dive into how our emotional states impact physiology, decision-making, and human connection. Discover how the heart’s electromagnetic field communicates, how to shift your “emotional diet,” and why love and appreciation have measurable biological effects.
We explore:
- The link between emotions, coherence & physiological health
- The heart’s electromagnetic field and emotional transmission
- HeartMath techniques for intuition, clarity & coherence
- “Primary perception” and the brain in the heart (ICNS)
- The vibrational spectrum of love & collective resonance
- Groundbreaking insights from Mae-Wan Ho on living coherence
Whether you're an energy healing practitioner, wellness explorer, or HeartMath enthusiast, this episode brings clarity to the subtle science of the heart.
Resources & Links:
• Learn more about Dr. Rollin McCraty and HeartMath: heartmath.org
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Welcome to the Future of Wellness , exploring self-transformation and holistic healing to unlock your inner potential . Hosted by Christabel Armston and Keith Parker .
Speaker 2Hello and welcome to this episode of the Future of Wellness . Today we are joined by Dr Roland McCready . Roland is Director in Research at HeartMath Institute Research Center , a professor at Florida Atlantic University and a psychophysiologist . One of his primary areas of focus is the physiology of emotion , investigating the mechanisms by which emotions influence cognitive processes , behavior and health . He's been with HeartMath Institute since its founding by Dr Childre in 1991 .
Speaker 2Roland has worked closely with Dr Childre to develop HMI's research goals and has also been instrumental in developing the HeartMath system of tools and technology to help people relieve stress and break through to greater levels of personal balance , stability and fulfillment . He is one of the primary creators of the Global Coherence Initiative and the principal designer and breakthrough to greater levels of personal balance , stability and fulfillment . He is one of the primary creators of the Global Coherence Initiative and the principal designer of the Global Coherence Monitoring , which investigates the relationship between human and geomagnetic field environments and communication among all living systems . His critical research on heart rate variability and heart rhythm coherence has gained international attention in the scientific community and is helping to change long-held perceptions about the heart's role in health , behavior , performance and quality of life . Roland , it is such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today .
Speaker 3Great , keith . Well , thank you , I've got to get a shorter bio .
Speaker 2Well , there's a lot to say . You've covered , you know , a lot in your career , so we're , you know , going to touch into a bunch of that today . Maybe you could share with us kind of how your journey led you to working with the Heart Math Institute .
Speaker 3Oh boy , let me give a short version of that . I will . Let's see how . Where to start ?
Speaker 3I've always had a deep sense of curiosity and sense of adventure , and so from a very early age and sense of adventure and so from a very early age I was always curious about what is a magnetic field and gravitation and all these kinds of things , and would often ask professors and so on in my journey my original career was a communication engineer and would ask well , what is a field and this kind of thing ? And I'd get these mathematical formulas no , no , no , I get that , you know , that describes how it behaves , what is it ? And I never get a straight answer to that . It was kind of like , you know , politely , brush off and don't ask that . Really it was what was going on . And then I was actually at the University of Nebraska at that time this would have been in the 1970s , I guess and ran across the book in the bookstore there that led me to . Eventually it was really about consciousness , you know , and some other perspectives on these things in the field of radionics and so on , and that kind of had a resonance with me because it was like hinting at some of the questions I had always had . So I basically moved to California to get a degree in consciousness studies . Kind of had a resonance with me because it was like hinting at some of the questions I had always had . So I basically moved to California to get a degree in consciousness studies , consciousness research , and one of the first degree-granting institutions in that field basically did that .
Speaker 3And then got involved with a gentleman in a group that first introduced spirulina to the world , at least to the Western world , and the motive behind all that was to really help feed the world's hungry populations . And it had a true humanitarian motive behind it populations and it had a true humanitarian motive behind it . And well , long story short , and I think it was early 1980s . National Enquirer , you know , the supermarket magazine , did a front page story on this Sperlina stuff and in the next couple of months in the company that I was running at that time for this , we sold about $20 million worth of spirulina . Amazing the power of those magazines . Anyway , that's a whole other sub story but we won't get into how we pulled that off . And so , anyway , we took the profits of that and went to the deserts of Southern California to prove that you could grow spirulina and feed the world's hungry populations . And we actually did that , pulled it off way ahead of our time . You know big giant spray dryers that are all solar powered and so on , and to try and keep this short , that went absolutely nowhere in terms of feeding the world's hungry populations and it was really blocked . It wasn't the technology , we had it , but the blocks were at the political levels , bureaucracy levels , and you can probably get the idea there .
Speaker 3And meanwhile I've got a degree in consciousness right . I mean , I know all of that , I've learned about meditation and all this and so on . And , um , that's in hindsight I can say that's when my idealism bubble got popped , you know , because you know I was talking about consciousness . But it really became very visceral that no , it really is a problem in consciousness . Um , in a kind of new way for me to understand that . And uh , anyway , I basically said the heck with this humanitarian stuff , I'm going to make money again . And I started a company which became very successful in a fairly short time in electrostatics that's kind of irrelevant here , but and you know , so that was fun , I'll have to admit , having a rapidly growing , successful company . But there was another part of me that I understand better now . But that was not really fulfilled and another sports car in the driveway wasn't going to do it , you know .
Speaker 3So went through that phase and then I met Doc Childry , the founder of HeartMath this was long before HeartMath existed as an organization and spent some actually I was , he was in the East Coast at that time and I was back there on business and said I'll go meet this character that I'm hearing about from some mutual friends , you know , spend an hour and spent three days .
Speaker 3And that's when I would say I had kind of more of a heart awakening Because I'd learned about the heart right , I mean , in consciousness it's all about it , but it was more of a metaphor . So I really had that experience of what the heart really is , more than a lot of insights came through that kind of awakening process . So basically I made more personal progress and gains in the following three or four months . They had in many years of meditation , meditation not that I didn't get benefit out of that , but it was a whole different kind of experience . So I sold the company and joined with doc and some others to help found heart math . I'm intrigued by two things here actually , one I just wanted to to call back slightly to the bio and this uh area of focus with Doc and some others to help found HeartMath .
Speaker 1I'm intrigued by two things here , actually One I just wanted to call back slightly to the bio and this area of focus , the physiology of emotion . I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about what is meant by that . And I'm also intrigued there by that apparently very powerful moment that you've just described , that I could sort of sense into there , that heart awakening that you describe , and how seminal that was in your journey sense into there , that heart awakening that you describe , and how seminal that was in your journey .
Speaker 3So the first in psychophysiology I'm officially , I guess , a psychophysiologist . That's branched into many other areas since then but so the physiology of emotions , I mean we spent a lot of time and I mean our lab is primarily a psychophysiology lab , and so in the early years , in the early 90s , we spent a lot of time looking at how different emotional states or emotional experiences affect physiology , like a lot of this kind of common , you know , hormones and neurotransmitters and immune functions and so on .
Exploring Emotional Vibrational Frequencies
Speaker 3And we were , we took a little different tack at it . And you have to remember this is early 90s , right , and at that time this was many years before the positive psychology movement , and at that time there were maybe three papers I could find in the research literature . It was a very different world back then too , you actually had to go to libraries to search things out . We didn't have all the internet stuff we do now and anyway , that's very , very few research studies had been done on positive emotions . I think I found three or four that were in that world , hundreds , thousands on stress and depression and , you know , anxiety and so on , but uh , very , very few into positive .
Speaker 3So we we were looking at things like what happens when people really feel appreciation or compassion , a lot of these things , uh , long before the like I said , the curve of that , and we were also looking a little bit deeper at the activity of the heart in those emotional states but all the standard stuff that you do , you know EEGs and brain and et cetera , et cetera , and so that led to really seeing that heart rate variability this is before it was actually called heart rate variability . It was before it was actually called heart rate variability . It was certainly not widely known . That was the most reflective of emotional state , which is reflecting the activity in the nervous system that was driven by emotions , and so that led down many paths to understanding why the most reflective of discrete emotional states was reflected in the heart , not brainwaves and things like that . That was almost impossible to pull out and so that started that journey . So now I would say many 30 years later , that from an emotional perspective , yeah , we can certainly measure changes in biochemistry and hormones and neural activity and the heart , brain , nervous system and so on .
Speaker 3But that there's where I've kind of come to understand now is that that emotional experience is a very complex thing with many layers up to it and that we're basically multidimensional beings .
Speaker 3You know that have different vibrational frequencies , that the emotions are ultimately frequencies at the energetic or vibrational level which are what's driving the activity . It happens there first and then that results in changes and all the complex stuff and play outs in the nervous system and hormones and so on , which are all part of it . So a lot of our current work is really focused on helping people understand that and how that we can become more in charge of our emotional diet and if we become more self-aware of the different levels . So self-awareness has many layers , it keeps growing to become who we really are and more vibrational level or energetic level awareness it's a lot easier to grab to . I kind of use the metaphor of an inner radio knob , right Part of our own inner technology , because it really is technology , when you really understand it , that we have more power to learn how to tune our own vibrations than we think .
Speaker 1You mentioned that heart awakening moment and it felt as if that was a seminal moment , maybe of a conscious sort of knowledge , inner wisdom .
Speaker 3Yeah , it was , but I'd have to give you a little bit more of that story , and I'm actually hearing this from more and more people these days . But when I was my first childhood memory you know , when you could think back to what's your earliest memory that you can remember as a conscious memory was actually . It was I grew up in a small farm in north part of Missouri , actually , and the thing you do is you take your kids to church , of course , and uh , so I have this memory of me me sitting there with my little feet hanging over this hard wooden pews on a hot summer day and the preacher was doing some I don't know , helen brimstone , vengeful God sermon , and remember the details . And um had a download at that point from I now understand it's my own larger self right . As kids , young kids we tend to have more of that connection . I now understand , but anyway , it was . So I'm sitting there looking around and going no , this is not the way it is Not the way the world works . And actually looking around and going , you're big people and you're buying this nonsense , right ?
Speaker 3So a lot came along with that that I was kind of here on a mission and a life's mission to do and so on , which I didn't fully know what was but just knew there was something . So that was really the first journey and that kind of actually . That was really the first journey and that kind of actually that was profound because it kept me out of settling down , getting married , doing that kind of things . And I knew it was something I was supposed to do but I didn't know what it was . So it was in that story . I started the other story with that . That all became clear as to what that was . So it was really being raised , facilitated actually , into as to what that was . So it was really being raised , facilitated actually , into really connecting with my own larger self , which is via the heart .
Understanding Multidimensional Living Systems
Speaker 3It's impossible to describe inner experiences if you don't have them .
Speaker 2I'm curious about this word you used , multidimensional , and that's how you said something along the lines of that's how it really is . If you want to get into it , could you describe ?
Speaker 3on a more technical level , what do you mean ? That we're multidimensional beings ? Well , okay , so well , maybe a good way to answer that would be the work of Mei-Wan Ho . I don't know if you've ever heard of her , but she passed away at too young of an age but was a biologist in the UK . She wrote a bunch of books but was the first to demonstrate quantum coherence in living systems and actually demonstrated that , if you think about a living system , that all of the things that have to come into coherence to exist . She actually defined the difference between living and non-living as quantum coherence , actually in her books , but from a very , very scientific perspective . And so she shows that you have to have coherence across two-thirds of a known 73 octaves of the electromagnetic spectrum to be a living system .
Speaker 3I don't know if I'm making sense . It's kind of a complex answer . I could probably do it simpler , but you think about it . You've got something has to spin up from nothing to something to have a particle and a particle forms together to make molecules and molecules to make , you know , cells and then organs and then organs that have to , you know , work together right , even be a cell , let alone a , you know , human or an animal living being . So that's , things are working together across scales and across time in a stable way . So there has to be something that glues that together and gives the informational patterns for that right which is ultimately at a more energetic or vibrational level . I don't know if that makes sense to you or not .
Speaker 2Sure sure , and you said , though , that the things that are happening at that energetic level are actually informing the physical , as I understood it Right . Do we have a way of , or have you done research that can in a sense validate this or demonstrate this in scientific language , and um , you know , we , that's not really our focus so much .
Speaker 3We're really more about the , the heart . But there are people who are doing that . Um , a guy who's doing fantastic research showing that in embryos , right , if you manipulate the field , you can completely change the dynamics of how that embryo forms . So this kind of relates to . Oh , his name will come up . I should embarrass , I can't think of his name right now , I don't know , just intuitively . Here there's another thing that happens , more related to the heart . It's called a cardiac monster .
Speaker 3You've probably never heard of this , but a meaning not not like . A arrhythmia means not rhythmic , right , so non-cardiac . So for most I'll give you the short version of this when a woman becomes pregnant , a very high percentage of those pregnancies spontaneously abort . Then women never know she was pregnant , spontaneously abort . That woman never knows she was pregnant . Now , what determines that in this case is when the cells are dividing in what's not yet a fetus . But you've got this glob of cells right and then the heart's the first signal to be detected in that fetus . Long before a brain forms . Right , it actually becomes the neurons in the heart and you get this first detectable heartbeat . You know a pulsing heartbeat in these cells . So if that doesn't happen , that's when you spontaneously abort .
Speaker 3There are some cases and it's one in like every 500,000 or something like that pregnancy . So it's not common but it's well . It's actually well known , if you look into it where that heartbeat doesn't occur but you don't abort and the cells continue to grow and multiply . So you end up with that's why it's called an a cardiac monster . It's not a living thing , right ? You've got an arm sticking out on one side and an eye over here and you finally abort it . And the point of that is I actually learned this from uh well , it doesn't matter how I learned it from , but that without that field effect , the guiding field of the heart , you don't have the information to guide differentiation and become a living system .
Speaker 1Be kind of one example of what I'm talking about so we're looking there at a kind of field first model , which is how we might talk about it field dynamics with what we do , where the body is sort of mapping onto the field that's already present . Yeah , beautiful . Moving things slightly to heart math and what you've been doing there , Heart math is emphasizing this connection between the heart and brain and I wonder if you could explain a little bit behind the heart-brain coherence and its significance .
The Heart-Brain Connection
Speaker 3Yeah , okay , and I can answer this on two levels , at least two . We'll start with two , and so if we just keep it at the physiology level , right , then this would be kind of where I'd talk about if I'm in a cardiology conference or something . Right is , the heart and brain are more interconnected through the nervous system than any other systems in our body . I don't think that far down the road to future , to kind of looking at brain activity without taking the heart into consideration would be considered absurd . Right , which is the way it's done . Now you get rid of all this hard stuff , right , it's artifact , you know Well . No , it's not so . In reality , the heart sends far more information to the brain than the brain sends to the heart , and this has actually been known since the late 1800s . There's nothing new here . And in fact William James , considered the founder of psychology , was well aware of this and psychology was based on this understanding until the 1920s and 30s in there .
Speaker 3Anyway , so the around 19 , late 70s , early 80s , through the the 80s a particular research group uh , really , it was kind of you could look at the history of this is where the paradigm started shifting back to a more holistic and understandable , accurate perception when they found that , first of all , the at that time , you know , the nervous system is considered this dumb thing . Right , just wires for that are there for the brain to tell the body what to do , and all the organs and stuff . Well , they started seeing that that's not the way it worked , that the heart , in particular , had its own logic and didn't obey the signals from the brain in many contexts . So that was just not supposed to happen . Right at that time . And in fact , in their writings of that era they were actually using words in their scientific papers right , like the heart acts , like it has a mind of its own . Well , and not only that , the signals that the heart was sending to the brain , the brain obeyed and it was affecting perception and you know many things . So that you know it was quite perception and many things . It was quite the upsetting thing when they were publishing this stuff at that time , but they ended up being proven right and all that . So that's kind of created a paradigm shift .
Speaker 3So the signals , that which is really reflected in the HRB I talked about earlier , the heart rhythms we took many years , but we now know all the pathways and mechanisms of this . So they introduced two terms back then in that era . The one was called cortical inhibition cortex being inhibited , the part of our brain we get paid to go to work for or cortical facilitation . And not only that they actually showed in their data , although they didn't emphasize this , that the heart somehow knew ahead of time what the brain needed to do next and would either facilitate or reject certain types of perceptional information to facilitate navigating the world . So , anyway , when you get into a what we ? We later introduced the language of incoherent and coherent and incoherent heart rhythms , which are very much associated with emotional states , right , we get angry , frustrated , impatient , right , um , anxious , fearful , these types of emotions . That leads to more incoherent or disordered rhythms of the heart . That in turn then goes to so we have all this afferent or ascending information through the nervous system . Right comes up to every major brain center . Actually , there's direct neural pathways that we now know one .
Speaker 3I'll talk about two real quickly here . One is the thalamus , the very core of our brain , and has the thalamus , the very core of our brain . The thalamus has a lot of roles sensory distribution , sensory information distribution and so on , but it's also the center that synchronizes globally neural activity in the brain . So you have to have good neural synchronization for information to flow through you know all the sensory systems and be perceived , accurately perceived . So when you're in that incoherent state it basically interferes with or inhibits neural synchronization globally within the brain . So it affects everything . You know , sensory , motor integration , reaction times , but especially the frontal areas of the brain frontal cortex , prefrontal cortex and so on . And one of the primary things that that gives us as humans is the capacity of foresight . That's what the frontal cortex really is about . So understanding how our behaviors and actions in the now are going to affect the future . That's unique to us as humans . You know our beloved pets . They have great memory of the past , hindsight , but they don't necessarily have foresight Right . So those neural systems and structures to perform optimally have to be well synchronized .
Speaker 3The neural activity . So when we're in that incoherent state they get more or less taken offline , right . So you get angry not that any of you have ever done this , right . You get emotionally upset , get a little maybe pissed off at someone and you blurt out the thing that a minute later you're going oh my God , I can't believe . I just said that that I didn't really even mean it right . Cortical inhibition , where , if you're in a coherent rhythm that does the opposite , it facilitates global neural synchronization , right , so everything becomes easier and better . You make better decisions , better choices . Right ? You don't do the stupid thing , right when you're angry or upset . You don't do the stupid thing , right when you're angry or upset as often anyway .
Speaker 3And then the other relevant system in the neural structures are the amygdalas , which is our emotional centers , and so the fact the core cells in the amygdalas are synchronized to the heart . Every time the heart beats , the core nucleus of the amygdala fires in unison with it . So whatever that heart rhythm pattern is is directly going to the amygdalas , right ? So why do we say to someone when you fall in love , I love you with all my brain ? Well , we don't , right . I love you with all of my heart . Because we intuitively know there's something about the heart that's involved in emotion . So the amygdalas are really largely monitoring the rhythms of the heart and then comparing that to what's called a familiar baseline reference , and is it familiar or not familiar ? And then the higher level brain structures are basically monitoring and labeling that . That was a whole sub story there , but that's important in terms of psychology . So that's all physiological level stuff , right ? So that's why our HeartMath stuff is so popular with athletes , professional athletes , olympians and also things like first responder communities , because when you get coherent , right , you're able to maintain your composure and your balance when in the middle of chaos , right . Or you're able to improve your things like sensory motor integration , reaction times , coordination , these type of things , endurance , so on , there's a lot of physiological level . I mean , we could spend a whole hour talking about that , but so you know , that's keeping it just on the physiological level , right .
Speaker 3And the heart actually does have , by the way , what became later understood . We talked about the heart having a mind of its own . Well , the field of neurocardiology was starting right around the same time . Well , it was really becoming more well-known in the 90s as well , which we now know . The heart actually does have its own brain . It's called the intrinsic cardiac nervous system . It was actually one of the leaders of the neurocardiology community that coined the term heart brain . That wasn't us , that was Dr Armour brain . That wasn't us , that was dr armor . So that kind of gives that all um a better understanding , however , um , so there's , we put it on the audience , but , uh , the .
Speaker 3So one of the things we hear still to this day , but kept hearing from so many people that were practicing the coherence techniques . You know , once we understood the physiology , then we developed a bunch of what are now known as the heart math tool set , or techniques that allow you to shift into coherence at any time , anywhere , right ? Well , what people keep saying is that God , after I've been practicing this stuff for a while , my intuitions on steroids , it's like this is different , right ? And then usually the second thing is and synchronicities , um , are become a way of life . Now , yeah , well , I already knew that . I mean , that's common , and so the we did a series , figured out how to do some experiments , very rigorous lab based research that was published is called the Electrophysiology of Intuition , those first papers .
Speaker 3We're trying to decide how much detail to go into here , but I'm just going to tell you the results , not all the detail , because that's all published for people who want that to take too much time . Basically , what we found in a paradigm where a person's at a computer and they're going to see images in the future that are either really negative or kind of very calm and bunny rabbits and nature scenes or snakes striking the screen , things like that , that , before the person sees the picture that the heart gets the information first about the future , sends a measurably different signal to the brain so we can actually trace this sending information . It's a technique called heartbeat of potentials , where it where it goes , when and where it goes and how it travels through the brain . So heart first , then brain , then you get a body response so that you we call it the gut feeling right or the hair on the back of the neck . So it's really heart first , then brain , then body , and then you have that feeling if you're paying attention right To your inner emotions and perception feelings . So the way I got that published back then this is like late 90s somewhere in there in peer-reviewed scientific journals , right which is was to say that the heart appears to have access to a field of information outside of time and space . Okay , perfectly acceptable language back then , because you know entanglement and the stuff had been proven , but not in a wet , hot , messy organs like hearts . But that's all changed now , even in quantum physics . So that was really code , because that's how you could get it published .
Speaker 3But what's a field of information outside the boundaries of time and space ? Well , I would suggest I'm a little more out of the box these days that well , a lot of people will call it your higher self . Here at HeartMath we just tend to call it your larger self , to take it out of new age or religion , because we mean this literally . And that's that part . To go back to multidimensional beings right , that's that vibrational or energetic part of our wholeness . You know it's us , you know our larger self and then you can call it . You know your spirit , your soul , the God within , whatever you want to call it , depending upon what culture and belief system that you come from . So what I'm really suggesting here I'll say suggesting . But is that the way we're really wired energetically ? Is that we have the physical heart but we also have an energetic heart , or it's also been called spiritual heart in a lot of traditions for thousands of years . I'm saying that's real , it's not a metaphor .
Speaker 3The energetic heart exists . It's very complex and exists at the vibrational level , another dimension . So it acts as the bridge between , you know , our human structure mind , brain , all that stuff and our larger self . It is that transformer of that from the purely higher vibrational existence into the higher physical human form here on earth . So we all have one , and when we get into a more coherent state and this is actually what the research data proved was that that opens that channel between the heart and brain . So we get more intuitive information . But the source of that intuitive information in this context is from our own larger self . So accessing that is how we start getting in touch with of that intuitive information in this context is from our own larger self , right . So that's accessing . That is how we start getting in touch with and unfolding who we really are right and what our real purpose is , and then we . That also then starts allowing us to become more self-regulated from that perspective , so it can finally bring the mind and emotions into alignment with , you know , the larger part of ourself .
Speaker 2A brief pause to thank you for listening to this episode . If you're looking to take the next step in your transformation , find out how we can support you with our popular energy healing training one-to-one private sessions , free resources and more transformation . Find out how we can support you with our popular energy healing training one-to-one private sessions , free resources and more . Visit energyfielddynamicscom to learn more
Understanding Energetic Communication and Synchronization
Speaker 2. When we say energy here , are we talking about something that is like , that does have form , something like an electromagnetic field ? I believe we see pictures of the tube , torus or toroidal fields , for instance , or what traditionally might have been called the aura ? Are we talking about that connection between a physical and non-physical aspect ?
Speaker 3No , not exactly . So when you see the torus shape , for example , around that the heart produces , or the toroidal shape of the magnetic field of the earth , or they look the same , uh , that okay . So when you put a lot , when we put electrodes on the body , you know , across the chest to measure the electrocardiogram , or we stick them on the head to measure the electrocephalograph , right , uh , it's called electro because we're literally measuring electricity . Right . So the electrodes , what they measure , they're differential amplifiers , basically are measuring current flow , they're measuring the electrical signal , right . But whenever you have a flow of electrical current , I mean this is kind of physics 101 , you'd create a magnetic field . Right Back to my original thing . I mean that's why of physics 101 . You'd create a magnetic field . Right Back to my original thing . I mean that's why it's called electromagnetism . But electric and magnetic fields are very different things and you can make one out of the other , right , the flow of current makes a magnetic field . Or you can have a moving magnetic field and induce current flow , right , so the electrodes don't see the magnetic component . You know that's produced by the flow , the electrical flow of the beating heart or neural activity in the brain . So the magnetic field that's produced when the heart beats easily radiates outside the body . That's what's different . Magnetic fields go through things . This is why cell phones work indoors . This is what I used to do professionally as a communication engineer . So if you don't believe me , stop using your cell phone indoors , right ? I mean , we know they work . You can even be in an elevator , so it's a magnetic field that's going through the windows and the walls and so on and carrying the information , your voice , text message , whatever , right ? So , um , pretty much any technology , from my world perspective , that we've invented , nature beat us to it . We're really just understanding how things already work . So we work the same way in that the field that we radiate .
Speaker 3So you can sort of measure that magnetic component . You , the electrodes , don't see that . You need a different instrument that's called a magnetometer , right , so you can . Then most of larger hospitals have what are called mcgs magneto cardiograms . You never you have . You don't have to touch the body to measure the field , right ? So obviously you would put the sensor fairly close because you get a good signal noise ratio . But you can back up at the magnetic sensor from the the body of the number of feet before you lose the cat capacity to detect the heart signal . That's about an inch from the brain , right ? So the heart , the magnetic component of the heart , is a hundred times greater than the brain . So it's obviously we're talking energetically , right .
Speaker 3Magnetically , in this case , the heart's the big player and for sure it's carrying emotional state information . I mean , we can put a probe out here in front of a person and measure the magnetic field and then look at the informational patterns being carried by that field . Until what , with about 75 accuracy , somewhere in that range , what somebody's emotional state is , what they're actually feeling , right ? So what this means is that what we feel inside doesn't stop at the skin . We are literally broadcasting , radiating that information and then so again , this is back to 90s for us . A lot of fun stuff we were doing back then .
Speaker 3The next step in that research was to ask the question well , okay , that's cool , but uh , are we also receivers of the information from other people ? And so basically , I look at it like our nervous system is a big antenna that is tuned to other biologically generated fields like a window effect . That ties back into another guy's work , ross Ady , who showed that biological responses to magnetic fields have windows in there . They have to be the right frequency and the right amplitude for us to respond to them , which those windows happen to be the same as what we generate , by the way . So what this means is that so , in other words , the fields that we radiate are detected by other people's nervous systems in a measurable way . I mean , our nervous systems respond in measurable ways to detect and respond to those fields , the information being carried by those fields from other people .
Speaker 3So what this shows us is that there is a , you know , of course , there's body language , tones of voice and how we all read emotions from other people , facial expression , so on , but there's also an energetic communication that's always going on between people and uh . That , in some cases , is more important than even these other factors in terms of our perceptions of others . Right , and , and it's a very big factor in this perception , you know , in this understanding of uh , you're like you might be feeling one thing and saying something else . It doesn't match . Well , that we detect that and it's like I don't trust that person , right ? Just , you don't know why , but that kind of thing , or it feels really good to be around others . So I know that's a long answer again , keith , but it's the . In other words , this is not the same as the energetic heart . This is all physiologically measurable , produced and measured stuff at this kind of level .
Speaker 2So I'm curious to take that a step forward , and you said that earlier about things that are outside of time and space . Information propagated beyond time and space . So does that mean that the emotional states and the transference of this information between people is happening without the limitation of distance , for instance ?
Speaker 3Well , in the case I just described , no , right , this would be like in the living room if we measure this Now , however , so the magnetic this gets into a whole other can of worms in a way . So we can , we can measure this stuff in the lab that I just described . We can put barriers between people and you know that aren't shielded and still see this information flow and physiological responses . Okay , so that's . That's pretty cool when you think about it , describes a lot of our everyday experience . You know , you have one of those meetings , you know , and you walk away going God , the tension is so thick you could have cut it with a knife in there , right ? I mean , we all experience these things , or how good it feels to be around others . So that kind of explains that .
Speaker 3However , in fact , we just had a study published last week in one of the Nature Journal scientific reports . Let's see , do I want to get into this ? Well , basically , I'll tell you the essence . It shows that in groups , at the group level , when people like each other , there's a positive emotional connection amongst the members of a group that their heart rhythms can be synchronized over long time periods two weeks in this case non-locally , Right , so there's also a non-local component that you can't explain by just the magnetics that we were talking about earlier . So they're again multidimensional . Right , there's different levels of connection . That also takes us into some of the global work we're doing as well , in terms of humanity's connection with and influence bidirectional influence with the Earth's magnetic fields .
Exploring Group Energetic Synchronization
Speaker 1I love what we're talking about here , roland , because we're thinking that there's so much concept of information and energy exchange between individuals that's central to what we might call more Eastern healing arts , right , and then this acceptance in Western medicine is completely challenged by the lack of like mechanism to explain how this energy , information or exchange is communicated . So what you're describing here or speaking of is a bio-electromagnetic , I believe , interactions within and between people . I believe interactions within and between people . So I think we're looking at psychological linkage and empathy and all sorts of explanations , and it's getting into really exciting territory around things such as distance healing work or even for those who are particularly energetically sensitive . We're starting to get mechanisms beyond the word empath or cycle , you know , sensitive , into actually that this phenomenon is happening irregardless of somebody's sensitivity to it Huge , vast implications for what we are as individuals and as collective humanity .
Speaker 3Yeah , I agree Absolutely . In fact , the study we just published , you know , in a pretty high level journal right , one of the in fact one of the reviewers didn't believe it . Don't confuse me with the data . My mind's made up . It took a few rounds to you finally couldn't argue with the data .
Speaker 3The fact that , well , this is a study of physiological synchronization , as you're talking about , which is a relatively new field . Really , looking at , whether it's EEG or brainwave synchronization or heart rhythm synchronization , these types of things , they're typically small studies of two people at a time , because it's very hard to get time synchronized data from multiple people , and they're almost always I'd say 99% of the studies that are published . There's quite a . It's really a field that's just beginning , but there's already hundreds of studies out there on this , but they're mostly in the relatively new . But they're almost always a study where you do something to try and induce synchronization . So you look at , maybe an audience listening to the same music at the same time , an orchestra or something , or a couple of individuals trying to solve a puzzle together or join communication , things like this , and you see the studies are pretty cool because they already show that the degree of physiological synchronization between individuals is very much related to pro-social behaviors and acceptance and listening and performance , you know , on tasks and things . So it's pretty fundamental to you know . It's kind of woven into our social connection in a way that there is this physiological synchronization .
Speaker 3The study we just did though we had to give you a little context we looked at it was part of a much larger study where we had groups of , we had five groups of 20 people in each group and they're located around the world . So the one group was in see , if I could remember them all . Saudi arabia was in see , if I can remember them all , saudi Arabia , lithuania , new Zealand , california and the UK . Okay , so it was another pretty cool study . But this is another analysis . So we were looking at , in this case , this analysis of that data .
Speaker 3I would think of it as free running synchronization . They're not doing anything . The only thing in common is that we're part of a group in those countries . So they're going about their normal days for over a two-week period , while we're monitoring their heart rate variability over continuously for 24 hours a day for 15 days . When we looked at how in sync were they with their heart rhythms , two of the five groups were synchronized . That , to begin with , is phenomenal . Who would have ever thought that's possible ? Right , the two groups that had the high degree of actual synchronization were the two groups with a high degree of social interconnections . They liked each other , they knew each other , liked each other , prayed together , worked together . You know stuff like that . It's not like they're hanging out in the same room for 15 days . No , they were all going about their normal lives .
Speaker 3The three groups that didn't you didn't have that , there was . No , a lot of people didn't know each other . You know that kind of thing . So what this implies is that , whether it's a family , a leadership team , a nursing team , whatever , people who work together , who like each other and have positive connections , emotional connections , form a group level field that is a non-local . They are non-locally interconnected , where you're sharing information with the group , the group members that are part of that field uh , non-locally , which makes a lot of sense and this isn't the only um kind of data sets that support what I'm saying here that we form these group fields where we share energy and information amongst the group members . Right , if you see , you know , like a really championship sports team , right , that just somehow magically seems to know where each other is and what they're all doing at the same time , right , or an orchestra or a band or whatever that just sometimes they hit , that just um , it's just different . You know the level of performance where they're just in sync and in tune together .
Speaker 2As you say , the synchronization I'm thinking of when you see those like a flock of birds who are moving very fast and they're basically functioning in a group mind and we might not fully understand the mechanism behind it . But obviously we can just apply that or extrapolate it to different aspects of human experience and see how synchronized that we can be . I mean , we're working in energy healing work , christabel and I , with groups of people and we see what it means to work with energy and information across distance and how transformative that kind of work can be with people . But the mechanism is not fully understood , obviously in scientific language in a way that's comfortable yet . But it seems like things are changing .
Speaker 3Yeah , I'm sure you'd probably find , I would guess , that the healing arts and processes work better when there's a group involved rather than an individual , rather than an individual , because there is a collect if you're in sync .
Speaker 3Right , and it can be energetically in sync , not necessarily that you have to be everybody's heart rhythms are synchronized , but energetically in sync that you have a bigger or a higher ratio of effectiveness in the healing process . And I'm sure you know Joe Dispenza and his work and Joe's been a I've known Joan before , he was famous .
Exploring Heart Coherence and Energetic Healing
Speaker 3But anyway , we've been doing , we published also I think it was this year or maybe last year we were looking at doing HRV . So we did a number of groups where we measured the HRV of the healers and the healy during these healing circles . And we have a pretty strong relationship , partnership or collaboration really , with a couple groups at the University of Lithuania and one of the groups is a mathematics group and we basically had to invent some new mathematical approaches to how do we get at energetic level synchronization even though it may not show up physiologically . So we published a paper last year on that work showing how the synchronization was occurring at the , at the . It was using a nonlinear approach in the healers and the healies in these healings .
Speaker 2It builds upon an understanding that is emerging and you know you're right in the heart dare I use the pun of this research and emergence in our understanding , because you know , with the work we do , we're not on the science side of things . We see the immense potential that these insights have for changing humanity , changing the collective , changing our perspective on who we are . You know how we're connected and how that might apply both to a self-understanding . You know philosophically , experientially , but also literally , at a very application level as well , like technology and health and well-being .
Speaker 3Yeah , I mean , for example , we have a number of apps we've developed that measure a person's level of heart coherence , and it's actually higher dimensional technology made simple right . Actually higher dimensional technology made simple right , um , because it allows people to see and experience their own level of coherence and experiment and see when I feel this I'm incoherent . When I feel love , you know , one of the vibrations of love , whether that's compassion or kindness or gratitude or patience , acceptance , these types of things , that that takes them into a more coherent rhythm , that's , um , you know , I can't necessarily prove this yet , but I would well pretty good hints that at the energetic heart level that's in communication with all the dna dna from my world , is an antenna as well that's connected with our energetic heart , right ? I mean , yeah , you've got the , the dna information about what your eye color is going to be and you're going to be a boy or a girl . You know hair color and all that .
Speaker 3But you know , one of the big surprises of mapping the human genome was where's all the missing information ? And if you remember all that or not , it was a big shock that there's not enough , not even close to enough , information in DNA to explain a living system . Well , where's the missing information ? Well , so I'm suggesting that's energetic heart , that's where that is , and the DNA is really an antenna , right . And when I say energetic level changes , well , that's communicating with the cells and the DNA . So any real healing has to be at that level right , otherwise it just pops out somewhere else , you know , because we have our own . So it's not about finding what's bad , right or we did wrong , but it really becomes more about removing the energetic blocks in that communication system between our larger self and the energetic heart and human expression of that .
Speaker 1With what you're sharing here and just sort of absorbing the information . There's a very beautiful but poignant sense of responsibility that comes into this once we're getting clear as individuals , as a collective , maybe hopefully as a society , on the implications of this level of research in terms of our . I used an amazing term earlier . I loved it because it implies volition , which is our emotional diet . Right , what is it we're consuming ? But what is it we're also kind of excreting into the world ? Right , what is it that we're putting out there ? And maybe this sort of stems into a sort of final question here around practicalities and this could be some of HeartMath's offerings as well but what is it that people can do from your perspective ? How is it that , with this information , they can start moving towards something that looks like this level of coherence you describe ?
Speaker 3Well , that's a very long discussion but I have to say , first step is becoming more self-aware . Step is becoming more self-aware um of I mean , and self-awareness has got levels and layers . You know it's um , you know it kind of starts with what you know . Mindfulness would talk about becoming more aware of thoughts and emotions , and you know that kind of thing . But then but there's with some practice , yeah , of course you've got to become aware of , but that's kind of one-on-one . But then becoming more aware of the vibrational part of our wholeness and our nature . It's a lot easier to turn around , you know , say , a lower vibrational frequency at that level than it is once it gets down into the physiology . You still can , but it just takes a lot more energy and a lot more work , kind of like a train that's left the tracks . It's a lot that energy is harder to turn around than getting it when it's subtler . And so the um , you know , I kind of think of it as I might have hinted at this earlier the vibrational spectrum of love . So if you think of emotions as vibrations at at the energetic level , right within the , the love spectrum , and you could use a musical spectrum as a metaphor , an octave , for what I'm saying here , but that contains things like compassion and acceptance , and heart vulnerability , patience , higher dignity , that part of our exists at that higher vibrational level of peace and acceptance , these types of things . Then you've got the lower vibrational emotions . Uh , and I'm not again , I'm not saying good , bad , I'm just saying this they're vibrations and you know . So the things that , um , you know judgments and for , uh , anger , hate , impatience , these are all lower vibrations that have real manifestations in our physiology , for our health and well-being , right , but they're also the lower vibration at that level block our connection with our larger self , right . So , because at the higher , but when we , when our consciousness evolved , because we're really on a journey in the evolution of consciousness , we all individually have our own level . You know , in my perspective , we go through many lifetimes . You come to Earth to learn about this level of density and navigate through it what I'll call the baseline frequency of our consciousness and awareness into the higher vibrations . That's when we become more truly , become more co-creators of our reality . And so it's a . It's a little bit wider , but what I'm talking about now .
Speaker 3But there's a built-in safety mechanism in a way in this dimension , because , if you can imagine if what we imagine in the quality of our consciousness could actually interact with and change physical reality , which it can . That's what our global consciousness projects are really all about demonstrating . If you were able to have things like hate and frustration and anger manifest in reality , what it's already a mess , what the world would be like , right , if you really had that power of co-creation and creation . But you can't . You , we do , you just have to . But there's an eye of the needle to get into that next octave of vibrations , of conscious vibration that judgments and blame and those lower vibrations can't get through , to really get into that level of where we're really true crow , co-creating our shared reality is the heart , the eye which the thread must go through uh yes you could say , you could look at it that way , but it's , uh , really , really energetic and vibrational .
Speaker 3That is what it is right . There's no faking that . That's why we have to do the work .
Speaker 2So where is it that people can find you and your work ? Where would you point them to ? And , yeah , anything coming up that you want to share with the audience .
Speaker 3Yeah , our website heartmathorg not com for the research and there's a research library if people want the research . It's hundreds of free papers or papers you can download there that have been published and organized by category . We also have an event . We do an annual global coherence event . That's really more about our global work and that's very practical and a really cool event . That's in April here and it'll be held in Santa Cruz . That'll be great for people who want a first-hand experience . Got some great speakers that'll be there , in addition to some of the HeartMath people myself and some others like that . That are pretty cool folks .
Speaker 1Thank you so much for joining us today . We'll make sure all that information is included in the show notes , roland , and it's truly been a pleasure to connect and just to hear you leave a review . It helps us reach more people and to make great episodes like this one . Learn more about field dynamics and why we think the future of wellness matters . Check us out at energyfielddynamicscom . See you next time .
