The Future of Wellness
Welcome to The Future of Wellness - a podcast exploring energy healing, consciousness, trauma recovery, and somatic transformation with world-class experts.
Hosted by Christabel Armsden and Keith Parker, founders of Field Dynamics, this series bridges science and spirit through meaningful conversations at the edge of subtle energetics, neuroscience, embodiment, and human potential. From Ayurveda to energy medicine, meditation to somatic therapies, we uncover timeless tools and emerging insights to support healing, presence, and inner growth.
Whether you're a practitioner, seeker, or simply curious about how wellness is evolving, The Future of Wellness invites you into a deeper dialogue - one that reconnects you to the field of who you truly are.
The Future of Wellness
Mastering Anger Management: Tools for Emotional Regulation with Dr. Christian Conte
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Break the Anger Loop: How to Master Emotional Regulation with Dr. Christian Conte
Dr. Christian Conte shares a grounded and transformative approach to emotional regulation through his powerful Yield Theory - a model rooted in radical compassion, conscious change, and over two decades of clinical experience, including work with violent offenders.
We explore why anger often arises not from what happens, but from the collapse of our inner “cartoon world” - a mental projection of how we think others should behave. Dr. Conte offers accessible, real-time tools for de-escalation, including the “maybe” technique and “sans adjectives” method - each designed to calm the nervous system and promote clarity under stress.
This is an essential conversation for anyone navigating emotional overwhelm, conflict, or transformation.
In this episode, we explore:
• The true root of anger—and how to shift it
• Yield Theory and the dynamics of behavior change
• The “cartoon world” and expectation collapse
• The “maybe” and “sans adjectives” techniques for emotional regulation
• Hot anger vs. seething resentment
• The body-mind connection in emotional reactivity
• The role of humility and presence in real change
• Dr. Conte’s journey and why meeting people where they are matters
About Dr. Christian Conte:
Author of Walking Through Anger and creator of Yield Theory, Dr. Conte trains counselors, correctional institutions, sports teams, and organizations in emotional intelligence and conflict resolution. Learn more at
Enjoyed the episode?
Rate & review on Apple Podcasts
Follow on Spotify or YouTube
Train in Energy Healing
Step into your mastery. Learn to facilitate deep, precise, and truly transformative healing experiences.
Registration now open - our next EHT-100 Training begins March 2026, live and online. Discover the training →
Find Your Energetic Blueprint
Not sure where to start? Take the quiz: What’s Your Field Type?
Reveal your strengths and learn how your energy field shapes your life and relationships.
💌 info@fielddynamicshealing.com | Website
We’d love to hear your thoughts — reply or reach out anytime.
Thanks for tuning in and connecting to the field.
Welcome to the future of wellness, exploring self transformation and holistic healing to unlock your inner potential. Hosted by Christabel Armston and Keith Parker. Today we're joined by Dr Christian Conte, an accomplished mental health specialist in the field of anger and emotional management. Author of numerous books, including Walking Through Anger, he is the creator of Yield Theory a powerful approach to change combining radical compassion with conscious education for the effective treatment of anger issues. His books are used by institutions around the world to train counsellors. Whether it is in his groups for violent offenders, the classroom or in front of companies and organisations, dr Conte always brings his unique energy to teaching people how they can use self knowledge and compassion for others to transform their lives. He currently trains correctional institutions, sports teams and and organizations in the practical application of yield theory anger management program. He was a tenured professor at the University of Nevada before he left the West Coast to return to his home state of Pennsylvania, where he currently lives with his wife and daughter. Welcome, dr Conte. It's a pleasure to have you with us today.
Speaker 2Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1Conte, it's a pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. So, as we shared there in the bio in the opening bio, your work in anger management and emotional regulation is deeply impactful. I wonder what drew you to specialize in this field, if there was a personal turning point perhaps for you that shaped this approach.
Speaker 2Well, I tell people that the reason why I genuinely got into the field of psychology was as a teenager. My dad was an earth scientist and as a know-it-all teenager, one day I remember asking my dad what has you studying rocks? I asked it in a hot-headed teenage way what has you studying rocks? And he said well, if you're only going to live on one planet your entire life, don't you think you ought to get to know that planet? And I said, wow, that was really powerful. And then when I went on to school, I thought about it when I was looking to figure out what I wanted to study or do, and I thought about his advice and I shifted it just a little bit. And I thought his advice and I shifted it just a little bit and I thought if I'm only ever going to live with myself, shouldn't I get to know myself? And that's how I got into psychology.
Speaker 2In terms of anger management, I was, specifically it was as a professor in the University of Nevada. I had a student who had observed some of the anger management groups that were being run and she said you know, I bet your approach would really make a big difference compared to what they're doing. So I went up and I observed several times and then what I did was a study where we did my approach yield theory and then the other group did their traditional cognitive behavioral therapy approach, and we saw a big difference. We saw a big difference. So I started. I just found a passion in working with this group. What I saw was this In California, after you're convicted of a violent crime, whether you go to prison or jail, when you're out you're mandated to 52 weeks of anger management.
Speaker 2So you can imagine how angry people would be coming in there. But what we would see is we would see guys finishing the group, getting off parole and coming back voluntarily to the group. And the reason why was we're talking about life. So I have this tagline that the world boils down to two kinds of people. That's it, the boils down to two kinds of people. That's it the entire world. Two kinds of people. There are people who have issues and dead people. So if you're alive, you have issues. So do I. We all do, and so I kind of took this approach of no one's better than anyone. We're all in this life together. Some people have you know. Their path has led them to where they are. So I really just got very passionate about helping people on that and seeing that it was all sides, I mean, I think when I would do some undercover stuff I saw that like a lot of people who were running anger management were very pejorative and condescending to the men that were in the group, like just telling them they're bad and wrong.
Speaker 2And so I thought, well, if I'm in this group, why would I want to change, if this is what you're thinking of me? And then on the flip side I saw some of the men they had to write this letter of accountability and I watched them like erase lines the day of they were supposed to turn it in and they group work together to get a guy's letter in. They didn't know who I was, so it was kind of funny. They group work together to get a guy's letter in. They didn't know who I was, so it was kind of funny. They were just I was watching it all unfold. And so I saw even though people have a bureaucratic letter of accountability, it's not really doing anything. And so I just wanted to make a genuine impact. So I did that out West for years and then when I moved back to Pennsylvania I started to do it in the prison system in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3You said there was this difference between something like CBT cognitive behavioral therapy which is a pretty common thing within a lot of institutions these days versus your yield theory. Could you tell us a bit about yield theory and how it might be different from CBT or other models for anger management?
Speaker 2Sure, so, first of all, I love CBT, I was trained in it and I think it's outstanding. Yield theory is an approach that really is steeped in leading with compassion, leading with humility and genuine curiosity, meeting people where they are getting around their fight or flight response and speaking in ways that can be heard regardless of the intensity of the emotions. I always tell people who are actually interested in the field of counseling psychology and they might know the CBT a little better. One of the main differences is and I was trained in CBT is that in cognitive behavioral therapy they say your thoughts determine your emotions. So it's not the event itself, it's what you tell yourself about that event. And although I really do believe and buy into that our thoughts impact our emotions, I don't quite go so far as to say they determine our emotions.
Speaker 2In yield theory we say that your mind always wants to match your body. So, for example, if you've ever gotten into an argument with a loved one because you were hungry, you did that because when you're hungry you're in your hypothalamus, which is seated in the middle of your limbic system. So it makes sense why you're agitated and irritable. And then we often, when we feel agitated and irritable, create a story to make sense out of why we feel the way we do, and usually people believe it's somebody else. You're the reason why I'm really angry. It's something else. But when you learn that your mind's creating a story to match how your body feels, it's very freeing because you don't have to believe every story your mind tells you.
Speaker 2But yeah, I think one of the biggest pieces probably that's a difference is, well, that's a big one. But another one that's really big is my approach is grounded in Eastern philosophy, so non-attachment is really the key difference. We really focus on non-attachment. So there are three core actions to yield theory and then seven fundamental components, and one of those seven fundamental components and one of those seven fundamental components is non-attachment. And although we have mindfulness, which things like DBT incorporate all wonderful, it's all really great stuff. Any healing modalities or helping people is wonderful. But if you're asking what differentiates it, I would say primarily those aspects about your mind always wanting to match your body and non-attachment as an emphasis in our approach.
Yield Theory vs. CBT Approaches
Speaker 1I certainly want to unpack that relationship to the Eastern philosophies in a little while Christian. In the meantime, I'd like to just return to that point you made about the body right and connecting through the body and the physiology. When we're looking at the physiology of anger, many people are struggling with hot anger right Explosive reactions, versus this kind of cold anger, suppressed emotions. What's happening in the body in terms of how these types of anger are affecting and impacting the body in the physiological or even the neurological sense?
Speaker 2Well, that's a great question. So I teach about the difference between what I call the cartoon world and the real world. Now, the cartoon world is our world of shoulds People should think, feel, believe and behave the way I think they should. And then there's the real world how people actually think, feel, believe and behave. And the challenge is, as long as we really buy and we expect our cartoon world and we demand that we're going to have our cartoon world, then we're going to be really let down when we face the real world. But the world's not letting us down because it just is what it is. What lets us down our own expectations? So I would say I'm not a mathematician. Our daughter is studying physics, which is amazing, so I'll have to have her help me figure out how I can make this a math equation. But I think it's something to the effect of the amount that you expect your cartoon world to be real versus the amount it's not equals the amount of anger you have.
Speaker 2For some people that's explosive. So you're walking into a store and someone bumps into you and let's say you have something like sudden rage which might have evolved because you experienced trauma when you were younger. And sudden rage is this experience where you'll get a rush. You'll get a rush of fight or flight and it'll go so rapidly, but you will implement a lot of extreme words the moment it happens. So, danger, danger, danger, and then you will see people erupting into a fight or a high conflict. That's a sudden rage thing versus what you were talking about, maybe sitting on a little bit more, something like seething rage. Now, in seething rage, any of the listeners out there who've ever had an experience where you get an argument at the beginning of the day, you walk away from that person. You don't see that person all day long and then when you come home at the end of the day, somehow you're angrier than you were at the beginning of the day because your mind built and built and built a story the whole day. That's seething rage and uh, that can, um, that can happen over time. That's one of the reasons why it's it's kind of a myth to tell people to count to 10 and walk away, because if, if you're struggling with seething rage, that'll actually make things way worse. Um, you got to be able to meet people where they are. It's different people have different types of rage.
Speaker 2But I think that cartoon world is a profound concept. Now, I didn't come up with the world of shoulds. Karen Horney talked about the tyranny of the should in the 50s and Albert Ellis said don't should all over yourself. But I framed it as a cartoon world, and I do that because it's fictitious. It's not reality and I think a lot of people get so caught up. Well, he shouldn't have said that, she shouldn't have done that. But the reality is they did say that, they did do that, and so we grounded in reality and yield theory of saying this is what happened. Now, what can we do from this moment forward?
Speaker 3Could you walk us through a little bit how you would approach working with somebody when, let's say, their anger is coming up organically in a therapeutic context? Are you mostly working with the story component? Are you working with the somatic regulation component, like, what's your general approach to managing the anger and uncovering it? Are you also going to root? Are you trying to get to root sources with people, or is it just about lowering the activation?
Speaker 2Great question. So I've been doing therapy for 27 years. I've seen thousands of people from all over the world and yield theory really is based in meeting people where they are and non-attachment, which means I don't have a pre-plan of how I would handle it. It would depend on the person and the situation, what's going on, but their ego defensiveness just won't allow them to listen to that in that moment. So I would want to work with what would work with that person in that moment, and I think we can kind of always come back to shining some insight.
Speaker 2I think that seemed to be pretty universal, that if we can offer someone insight that gives them pragmatic use, then they're going to buy in and that stage of change, are going to open up a little bit more and be a little bit more prepared to hear. I think there are so many factors that contribute to it. Like, I would love for it to be simple and it's everybody, it's this and everybody it's that. Unfortunately, at least my experience have shown me that it can differ greatly. But if you have a specific case or a specific person you want to dive into, we could always do that too.
Speaker 3No, I think that what you have said is great in the sense of meeting people where they're at and then using the tools at hand to go where that person's readiness may organically lead you.
Speaker 2Right. I mean, think about this. This is really cool In 2025, we didn't know this stuff when I started in the 1990s Like if a bear walked in the room right now for the three of us, our amygdala would just send a signal immediately to our adrenal glands, send cortisol and adrenaline fight, fight or freeze response. Right, we know this, that's what happens, but here's what we know in 2025. As sure as that bear would trigger that fight or flight response. If someone challenges our egos, well, the fight or flight response is triggered too, and it's the same neurological reaction. And so, depending on how attached people are to their ego needing to be right versus really genuinely wanting truth, like always say in Yilti, we don't seek to be right, we seek to get it right I think that's like a really important thing is to look for for truth rather than just to you know, hey, I said it or I believe it, so it must be right.
Speaker 1I'd like to explore Christian a little bit around this radical compassion as it were, this non-attached, the influences you're describing, because a lot of what you're describing is sort of basic principles from Buddhism right, equanimity, non-attachment, groundedness, observation, non-judgment. So I'd love to know how that fed in for you into this work, how you came about sort of implementing that. But also can you explain a little bit about what this looks like in action when we're dealing with someone who in the moment is completely unreasonable?
Speaker 2Definitely so. I grew up doing martial arts and was drawn to Eastern philosophy and teaching from the time I was young was drawn to Eastern philosophy and teaching from the time I was young and then, in terms of our spiritual direction or our guide, I think that we would definitely define ourselves as Zen Buddhists, practicing Zen Buddhists. That philosophy resonates with me all the way through. I really love what I learned and the teachings from the Buddha, so I integrated that. I think it's a basic way to approach the world, but I want to. I'm always really mindful that like that resonates with me, but that doesn't mean that I just approach people from that perspective or that they have to buy into that. I mean I'm okay if somebody thinks it's hocus pocus, like I'm, I'm cool with it. I don't. I genuinely don't have the answers. It seems to fit with me and I will tell you where it's impacted me tremendously. Again, let's come back to this non-attachment. So let's say I'm working with somebody, as you described, who's fired up, angry, whatever. If I go in there thinking I need to make this person not fired up, then I'm already going in with the attachment and a goal. So I don't do that. I go in with humility and say teach me, like, help me understand what's going on on your perspective, like, let me know what's going on on your side of the box.
Speaker 2So I, a lot of times I go into prisons and when I go into maximum security prison, a lot of my videos and things are played in different prisons throughout the world. And so sometimes you go into a prison and you'll have people say, oh, this doctor must think he's so-and-so or whatever. It's fine, they have their projections, but oftentimes they take me to like the worst crisis that's happening in that prison. I could be in a prison for 10 minutes and they'll be like well, let's see if you can handle this guy. And I always say I'm not, I don't have a magic wand, this isn't a miracle. What I'm going to do is go. All I can guarantee I'm going to do is go, listen and learn, like I'm going to go up to somebody and I'm going to connect with them and just I try to understand. So for me, humility is you know, I speak all over and I always ask people when I give talks how many of you believe you still have more to learn. You know, and a hundred percent of the hands go up right, everybody believes we have more to learn. So I tell people then, why is it, in the moment that you disagree, someone disagrees with you? Why do you seek to defend your position, like if you genuinely believe you have more to learn in this life? When someone disagrees with you, why not seek to learn what maybe they're seeing something you're not seeing? So I use a box as a, we use it. They call it the Conti box. I just call it a box.
Speaker 2But I'd love to tell you this story. It's kind of a cool story of how a box came about. Our daughter's in college, now Again studying astrophysics. She's just amazing. I'm so proud of her. I'm proud of who she is. Her character is phenomenal.
The Cartoon World and Types of Rage
Speaker 2But when she was five years old she came home from school and someone gave her a pamphlet on religion and it was a different belief system from our own. But in the pamphlet it said this is the truth. So our daughter was confused. She said but, daddy, it says this is the truth. So I took her upstairs to her playroom and I had her lie down on the floor in a playroom on her stomach and close her eyes, and I put a big box in front of her. I said keep those eyes closed. So then I put objects around the box and I had her. I put the box close enough to her that when she opened her eyes she could only see one side of the box. So I said what do you see? Well, there was a my Little Pony character there. Okay, is it true? There's a my Little Pony? Yes, that is true. All right, cool, is it true? There's a my Little Pony on every side of the box. And she was only five. So she said yes. So I scooted her over so she could see a second side of the box and I had a little book set up there. She said oh, it's a book. I said that's okay. Is it still true that there's a pony on that other side? Yes, that's still true. Okay, cool. Now is it true? There's a pony and a book on the other two sides of the box? And at five years old, my little girl said now, daddy, I don't know. I gave her a high five.
Speaker 2I quoted the opening lines of the Tao Te Ching. The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. In other words, the divinity is so much bigger than anything we can describe. So I said listen, for the people who follow that path and handed you that pamphlet, what they see might very well be true, but it doesn't necessarily mean it tells the story of the entire box.
Speaker 2And from that moment forward I used to integrate the box into yield theory. And you know, people will say well, I've been doing stuff for a long time, I've been all around the box. Unfortunately, that's still ego, because the box is the human psyche and so you can't really have known every aspect of everybody's psyche. It's just your ego that wants to say I know, I know all about it. Instead, what I say is I'm going to go up to that person, whoever you're describing, and I'm going to try to learn what's going on in their side of the box.
Speaker 2So for me, true humility is recognizing that as a human I can only ever see one to two sides of a box in a given moment. And I'm okay with that, like I'm okay with learning. When I was young did therapy, if someone said you don't understand what I'm dealing with, I'd be like, yes, I do. It's embarrassing because now I look back and I think you know, and I taught counseling for years. So I had learned this when I was a teacher before then. But I would say, if somebody tells me I don't understand now I'd say you're right, absolutely I don't understand. Teach me, teach me anything you're willing to share.
Speaker 3And I'm happy to learn, but I don't have to have the answers, and that's that's what humility is, I think, following this thread. Uh, you mentioned about meeting people where they're at now. The therapeutic process. Following that kind of principle may yield results that don't look like results or results that aren't necessarily, um, let's say, convention, conventionally positive. I'm curious how you deal with this as a therapist, as a psychologist, when you're opening up, broadening the scope of how you approach working with people in such a radical way. And very often people are expecting if I work with doctor, I'll feel better. Then they have that expectation and that's kind of the mainstream medical model, right, you're working, it seems like, in a much broader way. Could you speak to that just as a practitioner, or in terms of the results or the frustrations or challenges that come up within this kind of arena?
Speaker 2Yeah, I think for me, when people want to see, or need to see, a specific set of results, I always ask, like, what are the results you're looking for? If I ask people who they are, inevitably they tell me about some pain that they overcame, some pain that described that they were able to move beyond. We grow through struggle. So if you come and you're really looking for insight, you want to grow. It seems pretty obvious and I could be wrong, but it seems pretty obvious that that's going to entail some struggle and it hurts sometimes to think like. Think about like if you believe what you believe, you believe it for a reason. So if someone challenges that, like, oh my goodness, how dare someone challenge that? Like, those are your beliefs and your beliefs. Maybe you've challenged your beliefs before, so now you feel like you're at a spot where, no, your beliefs are definitely correct, and it's just a position, it's just a perspective, and so it's not about having the answers or coming up with the perfect results. I mean, through my whole career, people come back and I've, I mean, it's just worked out, because I'm not looking for a specific set of answers. If someone ever says to me how can you prove that? Here's a good example. So let's look at the radical compassion that you had highlighted. I believe that if I lived every day as another person, not just walked a metaphorical mile in their shoes, but if I actually lived as that person and I had their cognitive functioning, their intelligence, their affective range or ability to experience emotions, if I had their life experiences, I believe I would have done every single thing they did. Now when I say this hypothesis to people, they go well, you can't prove that. And I say you're right, I can't. But look at the advantage that happens when I make that assumption I wipe away judgment. I'm not judging you Like. You are where you are, you did whatever you did. I can't change a second of the past anyway. So me bringing judgment to that moment doesn't seem to be helpful.
Speaker 2If I'm trying to open up communication, so by putting myself and I don't just say that in a nice little fluffy way I deal with people who are serial murderers, serial rapists, people who have done horrific things to others. But I still sit there and say how can I say I would have done anything differently? And usually the ego response is well, I had a tough life and I didn't do that. Well, I had this and I, yeah, but you had your intellectual functioning, you had your, your brain, your life experiences. I've had experiences where I've worked with twins or triplets who've had vastly different experiences of their home life. And from the outside someone said well, they're genetically similar, they grew up in the same household, yet they are so different and I just can't say that if I was somebody that I would have done something differently. But when I teach that point in yield theory and someone's maybe more rigid and needs to have a result, I say yeah, I'm going to fall short there. I can't give you empirical data that I would have fact done everything or not. I use it as a way to say what works for me. When people, when I feel judged I'm not likely to open up. My experience has been when others feel judged, they're not likely to open up. So I'm going to work really hard to get around that ego, the fight or flight response, and speak in ways that can be heard and listen.
Speaker 2I'm really heavily influenced by Carl Jung. I really buy into the concept of the human psyche and that the ego is the center of our consciousness. But like an iceberg, that's just the part that's above water. The center of the iceberg itself is what we would call self or with a capital S, or true self or essence. We would call self or with a capital S, or true self or essence, or different names, immortal consciousness, whatever you call it. But that essence is deep and that can't always be described and people aren't always on the same playing ground with understanding it. And that's okay, like I'm cool with that. Like remember what the Lao Tzu said when you teach the Tao, some people will hear it, they'll take it in immediately. Other people will be here and be like, yeah, maybe I don't know, and a third group will laugh. And if they didn't laugh, it wouldn't be the Tao.
Speaker 3A brief pause to thank you for listening to this episode. If you're looking to take the next step in your transformation, find out how we can support you with our popular energy healing training, one-to-one private sessions, free resources and more. Visit energyfielddynamicscom to learn more.
Speaker 1You often say that anger is a secondary emotion, right. So what are the primary emotions when you're working with people that you're finding beneath the anger? Why is this such an important part of recognizing these sort of underlying emotions in terms of self-awareness?
Speaker 2Well, I'm not sure that I say it's a secondary emotion. Maybe I did earlier in my career. I think there's been a lot of research that has shown that anger might be one of the primary emotions anger sad, happy, surprised, as really, if you broke down. I saw this huge meta-analysis and they really break down. Those are the four kind of the prime emotions, but what you're getting at is really important emotions, but what you're getting at is really important and that is that it's often a result of something else. And so what happens is sometimes when imagine if you were going on a quest for gold and you're really excited you got all packed up, you got your things, you're so excited for this adventure and at your first stop there was the gold. You'd have the gold and you're like, okay, well, I'd still want to go on an adventure, but the gold's right there, and that feeling of, but I still need to go on this adventure, but what you were seeking is right there. That's kind of how I feel when I try to break down anger.
Speaker 2Expectations in your cartoon world really do encompass the vast majority of anger, but it shouldn't be like that. That degree to which you get tied to your cartoon world really is a source of anger. Now that doesn't mean that you're never justified in your shoulds If someone's hurting innocence and that angers you. Good Anger's a motivator. Anger can get you motivated If you're struggling with anxiety or depression or shame. Anger is a higher form of consciousness so it might pull you out of those lower forms. That could be a really good thing. So anger can be really helpful for people. But I do believe that it's driven a lot by the way we view the world.
Speaker 2Joseph Campbell once went to a mystic and he said I don't understand. Like we're supposed to say that God is in everything but people do terrible things. How can that really be, god? And the mystic looked at him and he said well, for you and for me it is. It's true. And I I stumbled on that line for a long time, like I really wanted to understand. Like what does that really mean? You can find it in his. There's a book, thou Art that from Joseph Campbell, and that line is in there, that story is in there. But I sat with that for a long time, because sometimes it's nice and poetic to say on a couch in a nice atmosphere and an intellectual discussion, that we're all God.
Speaker 2But I'm literally working with people who rape, torture. People do horrific things and it's not so nice and fluffy when you think about that. But if you really do embrace this, then if you really do embrace that, it's going to change the way you at least approach that individual. And I think one of the things I probably want to get in and make sure this is heard is that you can have tremendous compassion and love for people but still have very firm boundaries. There are people who probably should never leave a prison cell because of what they not only are going to do to people outside, but what they have done to every cellmate they ever had to every. You know they, you put them next to somebody. That's what they're going to do. But that doesn't mean you can't treat them with compassion from your end. But yeah, there need to be firm boundaries for sure.
Speaker 3Could you tell us a little bit about the evolution of the populations you've worked with? And uh, you're talking a lot about working with people in prison now. So was that something you thought of from the beginning or is it a place that you got brought to as your practice evolved?
Speaker 2That's a really good way to phrase that. Maybe I was brought to it by the way it evolved. I think the work I was doing with the guys in Tahoe led me to that. But even before I went out West, I remember working with a young man I was doing in-home counseling and he had attempted murder and was gone to prison. I would go visit him in the jail or I would visit other people in the jail.
Speaker 2I think I was always just fascinated by the concept of it and I believe there's hope for people. I think there are. People can make changes. I've watched people make tremendous changes.
Speaker 2I like the idea of knowing that you can make a change at any point in life, like there are people who are 99 years old who learned to read at 99, learned to drive. You can learn. Like we remember that they used to think that neurogenesis only happened the first three years of life and then for the longest time they said well, it might happen for a little bit. Neurogenesis for any listeners who aren't familiar with it is the creation of new neural pathways and they used to think it all. It definitely happens first three years of life, but they've I mean this might be 15 years ago now shown that it happens throughout your entire lifespan. So change is possible and I think I was.
Speaker 2I think there's another thing that really drove me to it was understanding that darkness. Like I really wanted to understand that darkness. I was heavily influenced by Carl Jung and the shadow early in my career and I wanted to understand that darkness. I was heavily influenced by Carl Jung and the shadow early in my career and I wanted to learn about that because I understand that it's inside all of us. The potential for everything great and the potential for everything terrible is inside all of us. So I think I really wanted to learn that and understand that and I'll be honest with you At 51 and having done it a lot of times, I guess I wish I wouldn't have.
Two Fast Anger Management Techniques
Speaker 2And now I can look back and realize what it did to me by sitting with people who described things that they did and it's like the last few years of my career I would never sit and ask for details. I don't need to know any of that. If I walk up and down death row, guys wouldn't tell me their case. I'm like listen, you can just talk about what you want to work on. From this moment forward. I'm not interested in that, because your psyche only can take so much, and to have to listen to some of the pain that people cause or the pride they have in causing that pain is challenging. It's heavy. So I guess that's why I'm blessed to work outside the prison too, because that is extraordinarily heavy work.
Speaker 2But just think about what our corrections officers go through. I mean, that is a population that is underpaid, undervalued. They're asked to do a lot. They're only looked at with negative lens from a lot of people on the outside, and here they are keeping society safe and providing care, custody and control. It's a hard job. It's a hard job. So I work a lot with officers too. I always believed that it was never going to go and just work with the incarcerated population or just the officers. I work with leadership all the way through, because it's all of us. We all contribute.
Speaker 1Given your skillset and your clear expertise. I'd love to make this really practical for the listener right as much as possible. So what are some of the most effective ways in your experience to break the cycle of defensiveness and escalation in an argument?
Speaker 2So I'll give you my two fastest anger management techniques. Okay, here are my two fastest anger management techniques. The first one is maybe All right. So when you're angry, it's usually because of a sense of certainty. I'm certain that you weren't listening to me. I'm certain you cut me off because you're a jerk. I'm certain of this right and that certainty. In fact, robert Burton, a neuroscientist who studied brain scans for a long time, showed that when people talk about certainty, it's actually mirrors what an emotional response is. It's not a cognition. So it's funny when people argue and they think they're being logical. I'm logical because I'm certain. No, if you're certain, you're emotional, but so maybe, so I'm going to come back to this. So the next, if you're certain you're emotional, but so maybe some come back to this. So the next time you're certain about whatever you're mad about, here's all I ask you to do Infuse the word Maybe.
Speaker 2Maybe that person cuts you off because they're a jerk. Maybe they cut you off because they're trying to ruin your day. Maybe they're headed to the hospital to see their loved one. And when you start to infuse the word maybe, this is just straight neuroscience. Here's what happens. You can still run with your initial thoughts. So whatever your cartoon world thoughts are, just run with them.
Speaker 2At first, all I ask is that you use the word maybe in front of it. Because when you use the word maybe, you're actually triggering your frontal cortex, your higher level thinking center, to consider an alternative idea. And if we looked at a brain scan and we saw just let's simplify this, especially for the listener who doesn't even have a visual here but in the middle of your brain, if you can imagine a bunch of energy in the middle of your brain where your limbic, your emotional system is, and then all of a sudden you flash with maybe it's the frontal level, it's the front of your brain system is, and then all of a sudden you flash with maybe it's the frontal level, it's the front of your brain, starts thinking Now you're starting to draw some energy away from all that energy in the middle of that emotional center, and the more you consider alternative ideas, the more energy you're pulling into your frontal cortex, your higher level thinking, and you will absolutely deescalate and calm down. So maybe that's a technique. I promise you, just try it.
Speaker 2You can still say whatever you were going to say. I'm just asking you to infuse the word maybe, and it'll work. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3Absolutely, and it seems to me like it introduces humility into the perspective. Always right, yes, that is it?
Speaker 2Second one? Second one is what I call sans adjectives. So sans is fancy way of saying without. So without adjectives. So here's what I want you to do I want you to think of the most recent time that you were, most recent thing you were angry about and for every listener out there, do this. It's awesome. Think of just the last thing that really frustrated you. Now you don't have to say this out loud, so let's be real. Go ahead and talk about all the adjectives. Think about the way you described it. So maybe someone cut you off in traffic. There's no good selfish piece of mess or whatever and all the adjectives. Think of what you do.
Speaker 2Now all I'm gonna ask you to do is think of that exact same event and this time, take away all the adjectives. So for the person whose car cut you off, you would say that car drove closer to my car than I wanted it to. You can't hold the same level of anger as or let's say, the car's going 39 in a 40, which can trigger a lot of people. How dare they go below the speed limit If you literally said this car is going slower than I want it to be going? That's it. No adjectives just. And what it does is I'm telling you I do this with top military personnel Like we. We do this technique. I've seen in some really heated situations where people come back and like, doc, listen, this technique saved my life. Accurate words lead to balanced emotions. So it doesn't mean that you're not going to be angry or upset if someone cuts you off or whatever, but you'll be significantly less reactive if you're able to be accurate with what you describe.
Speaker 2If I can just I really want to help the listener out there with this idea Imagine you say something like nobody ever listens to me. Now, in order for that statement to be true, that means, of the more than 8 billion people on planet Earth, not one of them has ever, not one time in your entire life ever listened to you. And if that's the case, yeah, that sucks. I feel for you. But if you go reality, you might say I tried to talk to so-and-so today and that person didn't hear me. Or maybe, if you're really accurate, you might say the person heard me, but they didn't agree with me the way I wanted them to agree with me. So now it's not nobody ever listens to me, it's Sally didn't do what I wanted her to do essentially, and now it's a lot, lot.
Speaker 3When you do something accurate like that, it changes it and you start to get a sense of self-control reminds me of other skillful languaging, like just taking ownership of things, where you might say like I didn't feel heard. Yes, you mentioned these, uh, primal emotions or something you said earlier, and you said anger, sadness, maybe happiness and something else.
Speaker 2I think it was either surprise or disgust happy, sad, mad, happy, sad, mad and disgust. That's what. That's what I said. I don't want to. This is something I saw years ago so I can't I wouldn't make that the center of what I say because I really wouldn't know. I'd have to check it out but there was a study where they looked at this meta-analysis and that part I'm pretty accurate with my memory on it. There were four primary emotions and it was just and I can't remember if it was surprise or disgust on the fourth one, and so where some studies would say there were seven, they were saying no, really, when you break it down, it could be broke down to those four. So here's where I use that.
Anger & What Lies Beneath
Speaker 2If somebody's struggling and feeling alone, what I like to have people understand is this If there are four primary emotions and there are 8 billion people on the planet, then statistically speaking, in every given second, millions of people feel the way you feel. So if somebody's feeling alone, I really want them to be wrapped up in knowing they're not alone. I think so many people feel so alone and I just I guess I wish I could reach to their heart and say you're not as alone, as you think. Sometimes we have to reach out and be vulnerable and share. You don't have to share details or everything, but just say, hey, listen, I'm struggling or I wouldn't mind taking a moment to connect. A little bit of connection goes a long way.
Speaker 3I'm curious about pulling back the layers on anger in this polarity of anger sadness. We do a lot of work with people working on the emotion of anger and there's this kind of archetypal process where, quite regularly, when you work with the layer of anger, what's revealed is a layer of sadness underneath. Now, this also comes from Chinese medicine and acupuncture theory, with organs and the liver versus the heart, liver being anger, heart being more of the sadness. Let's say, is this what you're seeing often when you're working with people through layers of anger? Is the emotion that tends to be underneath it sadness, and do you think it's important to get at the root of the anger, to get at the sadness? If that's the case, Not always so.
Speaker 2My personal experience is no. It's not always sadness underneath it, it can be for sure. Sometimes the root of anger is anxiety and what happens is there are levels of consciousness and the lowest level of consciousness is shame. And I want to be clear for listeners there's a difference between guilt and shame. Guilt is feeling bad about something you've done. If you feel guilty, good, learn from it, move on, don't do it. Shame. Whereasilt is feeling bad about something you've done. If you feel guilty, good, learn from it, move on, don't do it. Shame. Whereas guilt is feeling bad about what you've done, shame is feeling bad about who you are, and my research for a quarter of a century has taught me that people who live in shame act out of shame. So if I feel like I'm no good and I'm worthless, then why not hurt someone else?
Speaker 2Above shame is depression. If you've ever struggled with depression, you know it can feel immobilizing. You can feel like I can't move from this. Above depression is anxiety, and anxiety is awful feeling. You wouldn't wish it on. Your worst enemy. It's this fear feeling shooting through you, and fear and anxiety are neurological twins this fear feeling and shooting through you, and fear and anxiety or neurological twins.
Speaker 2Above those is anger. Now I'm not saying anger is the highest form of consciousness. I'm saying it's a higher form than shame, depression and anxiety. So that means we would rather be angry than dwell in shame, depression or anxiety. And when people learn this, now, all the good stuff knowledge, love, compassion, all that's above anger. But I work with people on these basic four because I want them to understand that the reason why you might be angry let's say you're nagging at your partner when your partner's driving something had happened to you, and so that anxiety that wouldn't be a sadness but the anger that comes out as you're picking them apart and yelling is because you don't want to feel anxious. So you got to lash out. And neurologically here's where we back this up when you lash out in anger you release endorphins, whereas if you sit and dwell in anxiety and all that excess cortisol and adrenaline, it just feels awful.
Speaker 2So two things. One for me personally no, I haven't noticed that it's always sadness. I think it's many different things. Sometimes anger is the result of trauma. I'm working with a veteran right now who has struggled with anger, but it comes from being. It was a training exercise, but incredibly loud and it shook her and now she is struggling with this quicker anger in certain situations. But it's not sadness. It was a fear-based kind of response. So I do think there are different things that contribute to it. That was the first part of your question. I think I'm forgetting the second part. You asked if it always was that sadness underneath.
Speaker 3The importance of processing the emotion.
Speaker 2And processing, okay, great. So now this is another really wonderful thing to talk about. Before 9-11, people used to do the old model of critical incident stress debriefing. Cisd was a very rigid model. Now I understand I don't work with it so I would not criticize. I don't know what's changed in 25 years and I understand that it might have evolved, which is wonderful. 25 years ago what happened was it was a very rigid process. You put people in a room. You make them go through and talk about the things that happened.
Speaker 2What they found after 9-11, it was a wide model is that they actually induced PTSD in a lot of people, and the reason for that is this Some people, if they've experienced a trauma, can forget about it and move on, and reliving it and rehashing it will cause them more trauma. Other people need to go back and relive that out, and I think for a lot of times in the 80s and the 90s, a lot of therapists were creating unintentionally trauma in people because they had to be through their unilateral perspective. No, you have to deal with this, you have to get it out, and that could be incredibly harmful for people, and now we have evidence that it could literally contribute to PTSD. So again, with Yield Theory, we're meeting people where they are. If they need to get it out, wonderful, we will go there and we will process it and I think it can be very freeing. But if it's causing harm to go there, I would not choose to go there with that person.
Speaker 2And there are ways to check for that. There are ways to. When we do trainings with counselors to check for that. There are ways to. When we do trainings with counselors and yield theory trainings, we show you signs and things to look for that balance so that you're not creating that unnecessarily. Again it comes back to that non-attachment. If someone were to come up to me and say, hey, yield theory is a bunch of BS, it doesn't work, I say great, maybe it is, maybe it is, maybe it doesn't work in every situation. I don't need to convince them otherwise. It's been helpful for me and it's been helpful for the people I train and work with.
Speaker 1But that doesn't mean it's without flaws or whatever perspective of anger potentially serving as an adaptive function, because when we think about guilt and shame being at these lower vibratory we might describe as a lower vibratory recharge, right Lower form of consciousness, as it were, and then anger as sort of situating above that, then I start to consider how we might harness it for positive change, right Rather than destruction, and how that might, in a sporadic motion, if we can catalyze or neutralize that anger, that we might find ourselves exploring even more positive states incrementally as we sort of climb up above it.
Speaker 2It's really a beautiful way to say it. I could almost have a visual with that launching through that spiral, that anger, almost like a bow pulling back and launches you through that. Absolutely, anger can serve a purpose in a good way. I mean it can be a wonderful motivator. It can push you to want to learn something, to want to understand something better. Maybe you feel a certain way.
Speaker 2I invite people not to run from their emotions and sit with it for a minute, like if something causes you angst. It's okay to sit there with a minute and say what are my emotions trying to teach me? And a lot of times anger is teaching us stuff, um, and it's okay to listen to it. So it's not about not being angry and never having anger. It's okay. Like I still have a cartoon world. I came up the concept of it. I still have it. I just know how to check it faster. I just know how to check it faster. I just know how to check it really quickly. As soon as my mind gives me a should I go. That's ego and it's not easy. I think you get to a tipping point where it becomes a lot easier, but sometimes, if you really believe something, it's hard to let go of that. But, yeah, I do think it can serve the evolutionary. Let me go with that for a minute. I do think it can serve evolutionary. Let me go with that for a minute.
Speaker 2This is a great example. So this 10,000 BC, we need to move in a group. We need to move as a group. We're safer as a group. If the group decides to kick you out and you're on your own, you have a much less chance of survival. So we have this group mentality. Well, now, let's take and I'll tell you what this is kind of survival. So we have this group mentality. Well, now let's take, and I'll tell you what this is kind of cool.
Speaker 2But the there was. I've seen research. This one anthropologist had this hypothesis that Neanderthals, who had bigger brains than we do, died out but homo sapiens lived on. And the researchers idea and this is just an idea, but I thought it was cool was that Neanderthals are often found in isolated burials whereas Homo sapiens are in more group burials, indicating that maybe and all they had, they lived on mountainsides. They had a bigger occipital lobe, much bigger occipital lobe, they had bigger muscular bodies and if on top of mountainsides, they would need to see farther for their prey. So the thought from this person was maybe they died out because they had a larger portion of their brain devoted to eyesight and coordination, where we had a larger portion of our brain devoted to social interaction, and maybe it was that group mentality that saved us. Okay, it's, maybe. It is, maybe it isn't. It's a cool thought, but here's what a cool thought comes from. That is at the very beginning.
Speaker 2I told you about different types of there's sudden rage or seething rage. There's also a rage called abandonment rage and that happens when you perceive you're going to be. You might not actually be being abandoned, but you perceive as if you are and you can. Oh, the anger can intensify greatly from that, and one of the ways we work with people who struggle with abandonment rage is to focus on I'm safe. I'm safe right now Because if you were abandoned 10,000 BC, sure panic because you're out there on your own in a cruel world, but if you're abandoned at the 21st century, you can still order Uber Eats and stay in your apartment. You can still survive. That's not a plug for Uber Eats. I don't know why I said that. You can order food on whatever kind of mobile app you want to order, but you can survive in an apartment, you don't have to worry about being out in the wilderness, and so I think, from an evolutionary perspective, that could contribute to some people's sense of anger.
Presence and the Power of Now
Speaker 3You've said that you've been very influenced by Eastern traditions, zen, buddhism in particular, and this key phrase of non-attachment. We speak to a lot of people doing all different kinds of healing work. Therapists have you, and one of the organizing features of everyone's practice seems to be presence. Now, sometimes in Eastern traditions presence might be described as something like pure awareness, consciousness, the witness, pure observation. Could you tell us a little bit how you weave this into your practice with people? You said you meet people where they're at, but what kind of language do you use? What opportunities do you take when you can help someone to see something from the most deeply non-attached place possible?
Speaker 2Well, I was really influenced by gestalt therapy. I had a professor who was just a phenomenal Gestalt therapist. He had been to the Gestalt Institute and just really was amazing, and he found a way and what I learned from him was how to bring that into the present moment, and that heavily influenced my work, for sure. That heavily influenced my work, for sure. Sometimes it's just noticing the chair you're sitting on and bringing that into the person's awareness in that moment. It might be focusing on a shoe for a split second, anything to get the person in this present moment.
Speaker 2But what I, what I do, since I can't control anyone else and I'm the only one I can control is I become very present. And so and I'm the only one I can control is I become very present. And so when I'm with people, I'm with people and that's the only part I can control. So that's what I do. And I think a lot of times, like when I was, when I started again, 27 years I've been doing therapy and when I first started, I would want to tell people everything they could learn to handle their anxiety. You know about this, this, this is, and what I've done through the years. I think people are drawn to come see me for anxiety, because I'm just going to be present with you and I'm going to call my energy so much that it's going to tap into your mirror neurons and your mirror neurons are going to experience that sense of calmness as well.
Speaker 2But it's not that I necessarily have a particular phrase. I changed the phrase Like if I'm working with a sports team, we might use the phrase right now I've been using that a lot this year for the whole team. Get the whole team in on it right now, right now, cause the past is gone. We can't change a second of it. The future we will never reach. The only moment that exists is this moment. You know it's really cool.
Speaker 2I was telling my wife this recently Like we've, you know, I had a Eastern martial arts teacher when I was in. You know, taught me from that martial arts from Eastern perspective from a young age and I might've always cognitively heard that there's only this present moment. I don't think I can fully understand it, like the entire everything is existing now. I don't know that I'm cognitively able to truly comprehend that. I want to, I buy into it, but I don't want to act like oh, I really understand, I get it. I understand all time and everything, but I do really believe that, like, this is only this moment, and more and more I'm seeing it here.
Speaker 2I guess I'm pointing to my heart If this is an audio program I'm seeing it here, that I am seeing it just in my head that that really is just this moment. Like is just this moment, like working with people on manifesting things and and and and this idea, like it really is just this moment. That's really cool. I guess the part I'm trying to articulate is sure, I could have put lip service to this as a teenager, but I didn't know anything about it. And I'm not saying I know it now. I'm just saying I'm starting to gain a little bit more awareness in a deeper way that this is really all we have is the present moment.
Speaker 1Ziply put. Christian really appreciate that. In closing, I'd love to ask, as this podcast is called the Future of Wellness, just your hopes or aspirations for either yield theory or for yourself and your work in anger management? How is it that you see this potentially playing out in the future of wellness, either idealistically or otherwise?
Speaker 2Yeah. So I have a new book that's going to be coming out soon called Strong Mind, strong man, and it is really geared toward helping people get a sense of internal control, and I think that, in a world I love your name of your podcast, this is a great idea, right? The future of wellness. So you sit and think, in a world where people are going to have access to unlimited knowledge at their fingertips, truly, what will separate people moving forward are those who actually practice what they know, because anybody's going to be able to rattle off the things that may have taken decades to study in books and this, and that Now people could just ask AI, while you're watching a cartoon show and you ask AI the most profound question, okay, I got it, but did you get it? And so I really think what's going to separate people in the future are those who, when it comes to wellness, will you practice what you know. As I mentioned in strong mind, strong man, is it complicated? I don't. I don't think it's complicated, like be accurate language, like there's a present moment. I don't think there's a bunch to make it complicated, but it takes effort to do, just like meditation.
Speaker 2I've been teaching meditation for 20 years. If I do it with people in maximum security prisons, I mean I do it, and I said when I first started, I never would have brought that stuff into the prison. You, I would have been laughed out of there. I never would have done it. Now I do it with freaking UFC fighters, I do it with military personnel. I do it with because now what I say is this as sure as pushups are a one-to-one correlation, you do pushups, you're going to get stronger chest muscles.
Speaker 2If you meditate, your brain's going to operate more effectively. You can have spiritual beliefs. No, it's still going to work. It's going to help you and I think again, this is, but you have to actually do it. You can't just be like, oh yeah, I know about meditation, do it. You can't just be like, oh yeah, I know about meditation, you know, it's not about rattling it off. It's about do you actually sit and do it? And if you do, you're going to gain the benefits from it. So I would say my hope for everyone out there is that you live the wisdom that you actually know.
Speaker 3Brilliant advice, truly. If people want to find your work, where is it that you'd like to direct them?
Vision for the Future of Wellness
Speaker 2I would love for people to check out my YouTube channel. My YouTube channel is just Dr Christian Conti. I have a website. I have a lot of exciting stuff coming up. My wife and I are doing comprehensive courses for couples doing a comprehensive courses for couples. You know, my wife just went through an enormous battle with cancer and is on the other side of it and is now cancer free.
Speaker 2That year, last year, shaped our lives profoundly. We had, we were about to launch a whole thing for couples the year prior and a week literally a week later, this happened. So she went into the depths of this journey. I'm so thankful. After everything she experienced from chemotherapy to surgery, radiation, every process, every natural approach she is now finally in a spot where she is cancer free. So I'm really excited to share that. We're going to be doing stuff from parenting, which is obviously one of my favorite things in life, to the work we're going to do with couples, and we're going to especially work with people who have facing difficult diagnoses, because unfortunately, you meet a lot of people that will tell you answers, that don't have answers, and I just want to empower people to find things for themselves but also know where to look for it too, because that's kind of a hard thing.
Speaker 1Incredible intentions and ambitions there. Christian, really appreciate you sharing that and we look forward to seeing more. I can certainly feel into the emotionality of that experience with your wife and just very good to hear that she's doing well now.
Speaker 1And on the other side of things, thank you, thank you very much we'll be sure to include all the uh personal links in the show notes and uh, please do check back in with us as well as that unfolds, and it'd be a pleasure to hear more about it thank you so much for finding my work.
Speaker 2Thank you for taking the time to interview me and ask thoughtful questions. I I hope that was helpful for you, but I definitely appreciate it. So thank you very much.
Speaker 3Thank you very much, Dr Conte.
Speaker 1Thanks for being a part of the future of wellness. Be sure to subscribe and leave a review. It helps us reach more people and to make great episodes like this one. Learn more about Field Dynamics and why we think the future of wellness matters. Check us out at energyfielddynamicscom. See you next time.
